I went to bed very disturbed last night.
No, it wasn’t the cheese sandwich - something far more agitating. I decided to stay up and watch Ben Anthony’s UK Channel 4 documentary on The End of the World Cult. It has been on my mind a lot ever since.
Former Seventh Day Adventist pastor, Wayne Bent (no, I really didn’t make that up), now known as Michael Travesser, believes he is the Messiah. This 66-year-old has spent 20 years preparing his 56 unquestioning and devoted followers for Doomsday. 7 years ago he took them to a remote corner of New Mexico called Strong City. They say they are all preparing for death, to go to a better place. He confidently predicted that the world would end on 31 October, 2007, and they all believed him.
There were three related aspects of this documentary that I found particularly chilling.
The first was the strength of delusion that was apparent within the leader and his followers. Although I now work in the field of mental health, I don’t pretend to be an expert in psychiatry, and I certainly am unqualified to make any psychiatric assessment. However, while watching the programme I found myself thinking that part of what we were seeing had something to do with a kind of individual and group psychosis.
Psychosis is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a “loss of contact with reality.” Stedman’s Medical Dictionary defines psychosis as “a severe mental disorder, with or without organic damage, characterized by derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning.”
Psychosis can take many forms, it can include:
- Sensing things that aren’t really there (Hallucinations)
- Having beliefs that aren’t based on reality (Delusions)
- Problems in thinking clearly (e.g. thought insertion, withdrawal, block, broadcasting)
- Not realising that there is anything wrong with themselves (called lack of insight)
Michael, being convinced that he was the Messiah, had a direct line to the Father, and the Father told Michael what to do with great frequency. The Father occasionally forced his body to do things. The members of the group who hadn’t left were the ones who unquestioningly believed him. They never challenged Michael. They just reinforced the delusion. And of course, the children born into the group knew nothing different to this particular distorted universe. The group gazed into his eyes with obvious devotion and hung on his every word. In being in his presence they clearly ‘knew’ they were getting close to the Father.
The second aspect of the cult that disturbed me was that not only were they blind to Michael’s delusion, they were also blind to the appalling inconsistencies between their desire for perfection (with a soon-to-come escape from this sordid world) and what other religious groups would describe as the ‘gross sexual immorality’ in their midst. Some of their behaviour would offend even liberal standards, and it certainly ought to have offended their own ‘higher’ standards, but they just couldn’t see the problem.
One of the first things the Father told Michael to do, after Michael realised he himself was the Messiah, was to have sex with two women. When the husbands of these two women were angry about this, Michael told them to direct their anger to the Father. He continues to consummate with them, along with others, including his daughter-in-law.
As part of her desire for greater holiness, a teenage girl interpreted Michael’s words about being ‘naked before God’ literally and asked Michael if she could take her clothes off. He thought for a moment before agreeing and then lay on the bed with her, hugging her. When questioned in the documentary about this, Michael justified it on the grounds that doctors see women naked and it is ok. Apparently M.D.’s are worse because they put their fingers inside women when examining them. Soon after this Michael was told by God to collect seven virgins who all took off their clothes and were hugged naked by him (at least 2 of the girls were under age according to state law).
The extent of the group blindness about the acts described above can be measured by the fact that all the women and their husbands in question are still in the group. His son, an ex-policeman (and very aware of the law relating to sexual abuse of minors), is Michael’s trusted lieutenant. On hearing of the sexual abuse, two sets of parents (former cult members), removed their children who had begged to be left in the group. After a few weeks the children elected to go back, some of them going on hunger strike in order to get their own way.
The third disturbing thing about the group, is that they have a theory that explains everything, even those things which are contrary to reason. You cannot hold rational discourse with them. They are unsinkable rubber ducks. Whenever you shoot them down, they just bob back up again. The documentary crew were banned from the group on October 31, the day that the world would end. They waited at the gates. At midnight, Michael and his followers walked towards the gates carrying torches in the darkness, ecstatically happy, crying “Release!” and “Freedom!” They then returned to their settlement. The following day, all requests for interviews were turned down.
Most people would have taken the non-occurrence of the end of the world as a serious blow to their confident beliefs. The group have stayed, and Michael knows that Father has put back the date until December 15, 2007. So the Father says you can have sex with other people’s wives and encourage children to get naked, and he can change the date at the end of the world, and only the spiritually blind and faithless would dare to question such things. It reminded me a bit like answers (or non-answers to prayer). If something happens it is great, if not, there is always a reason for it not happening - god said no, you weren’t holy enough, god is making you wait, prayer isn’t about asking for things anyway.
To an outsider it would seem that many people have been seriously damaged by the cult and there is a case for law enforcement agencies and mental health professionals to get involved to protect the children from further abuse - though I accept that the practicalities of that make any involvement extremely difficult, if not impossible. The whole religion just seemed another particularly hideous example of bad faith.
_______
Update 16/12/07: Interesting article by Richard Hannaford.
Update 27/12/07: You can now see a video of the first 20 minutes or so of the documentary. Click HERE.
Gabriel A.K.A Michael-> “I’ve made no secret whatever of being with Michael, if that indeed is what you are implying.”
No it wasn’t… But then I’m not the only one who doesn’t read the posts properly. Also perhaps I’m working with a different purpose to the others here - you just justify your own life a bit too much. I don’t care what *you* do in New Mexico my friend.
Red faced? Did I respond in my later posts to any of your Ad Hominem? I can get red faced, but only when I don’t expect the other monkey in the ring to fling his excrement with such vigor. And you clearly are a “flinger”… a poorly evolved one at that
Justin,
Yes, when God has you do something it supports the Bible, and all Heaven is on your side. Jesus said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.” God sent me to Michael, and Michael’s instruction from Father was to do what I asked of Him even though He naturally did not want to. It was the will of Him Who sent his Son to us, that I requested to lie naked with His Son.
Jesus did not want to go to the cross. He asked God to take the cup from Him three times but yielded Himself up and went ahead and went forward in the will of His Father for Him. Michael did the same when Father sent the Seven virgins to Him that requested to lie naked with Him. He did not want to, but He saw that God was sending us to Him, and He yielded to His Father’s will for Him. All of this was to bring the Seven last plagues upon the earth. You may read about it here: http://strongcity.info/LOR/sc/post/the_seven_last_plagues_of_offense/#more-1148
Everything done in this land has been done by God’s instruction alone. We have only done what we were instructed of God to do, and the Bible teaches to follow God’s instructions.
302: Healed: “It was the will of Him Who sent his Son to us, that I requested to lie naked with His Son.”
I am a little confused now, actually I have been all the way through - I’m sure Gabriel will fill you in. Is Michael an Angel, or the Son Of God? I used both terms in my posts, and want to adress him properly.
Healed and anyone else from MT’s camp (Including the ever side stepping MT himself)
Does Michael still bear the scars of the spikes driven into his hands and feet on the cross?
Christ still bears those scars.
The Bible says he will always have those scars to remind us of what he did for us.
Show us the scars MT.
I’m pretty sure you won’t find anything in the Bible that says when Jesus was here the first time that he was shacking up with a couple of his disciples wives. That would still be called adultery.
303 MonkeyWhisperer:
“Is Michael an Angel, or the Son Of God?”
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Radio/BibleAnswersLiveQuestionArchive/tabid/212/ctl/PlayMedia/mid/731/MDID/2274/PID/1113/SID/13/SQT/A/7/Are-Jesus-and-Michael-one-and-the-same/Default.aspx
Followers - direct this to you leader:
Why does Wayne aka Michael act against the commandments.
Living as a man or a tool for the Lord still does not make it okay to sin against the Bible’s commandments. This would still mean - no stealing and no adultery.
Did Jesus have wives when he was here before? Were they formerly wives of his disciples? He is above wordly needs MT. Do your followers see you for the misconceptions you fill theirs heads with…..do they have doubts..they should and they should be questioning you MT. And where are those scars from you being nailed to the cross.
This man should not be trusted. He is a dangerous man making false claims. Interferring in people’s healthy marriages.
Your camp is staying very quiet I noticed……would that be because now they are questioning you after having lead them astray for almost 20 years? Torn apart families and lied in order get sex in the name of the Lord. You are a very sick sick man playing with people’s lives and yes you will be held responsible.
Samual: Thanks. That helps.
JC, ME, MonkeyWhisperer, Skeezix, Malpoet:
You just can’t let God run His universe the way He wants to, can you? He wants to heal some young ladies and another young lady who has been damaged by a lustful man, and He does, and you come against the Healer because you certainly know the method chosen wouldn’t be the one used. You don’t like His methods and you don’t like Him, and if you were God you sure wouldn’t have Wayne Bent do it! Not to mention that you are sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that God did not put the Spirit of Michael into Wayne and give him the job of being a messiah for this time.
Never mind healing hurting hearts and a young lady, never mind you don’t know what you’re talking about, never mind you have never met the accused, never mind your opinions, judgments and assumptions, never mind you can stay in your nice safe environment, write your gripes and accusations on this forum and not have to risk your life or give yourself away a million times or sacrifice everything you have including your very own life, losing everything to love one soul out of their hell for no reward, no pay and you get nothing for it.
The justifications and explanations for Travesser’s behaviour all fail. The supposedly religious content is irrelevant.
The case is similar to that of Michael Jackson other than that it is more straightforward and the statements of the abuser and the victim confirm the offence.
A naked man in his sixties taking a naked child of fourteen into his bed and touching her, is sexual abuse. This is nothing like occurrences of nudity within a family, and it has nothing at all in common with medical procedures carried out by professionals in clinical environments. These comparisons, given by Travesser, show the desperation of his attempts to wriggle away from his abusive behaviour.
A minor cannot consent to sexual conduct with an adult. Travesser claims that one of the children who was naked in bed with him was mentally older:
“I would say that one of these ladies is a hundred years ahead of your world. She is way older than your national leader, mentally.”
This deranged statement is a further indication of desperation to depict his criminal behviour in a false light.
The claim that the child obtained the consent of her parents for the abuse is also irrelevant. Parents are not able to offer their children to be victims of crime. Responsibility for the abusive act lies entirely with the adult involved in the act. That was Travesser.
Due to the dominant position that Travesser holds over his followers, and the isolated nature of Strong City, there is a real and substantial risk that Michael will offend again. It is also, I think, self evident that other paedophiles may take encouragement or seek justification for their own behaviour from what Travesser has done.For these reasons and others it is important that action should be taken by the New Mexico law enforcement authorites without delay to bring Travesser to justice for his behaviour and to protect other minors from him in the future.
Malpoet, the excellence and clarity of your posting above (310) has brought me (temporarily) out of my self-imposed silence. I just wanted to say: Amen to that! Amen!
Healed
You say:
“Michael DID NOT molest me, and it was not sexual in any way either. He did not touch my breasts”
He said:
“she took off her clothing and I held her, and placed my hand on her heart,”
Where did he place his hand?
I suggest to you that it is impossible for you to know what was in the mind of Michael when you were naked in bed with him. The fact that you had been molested previously does not give you insight into the full sexual workings of an adult man’s mind. I do not believe that God told you to do anything, any more than I believe that God tells Michael to do anything or that Michael is a Messiah. Whatever was in your mind came from within you, but that really is not the issue. It is unlawful for an adult man to put himself into a sexual situation with a child. That is what Travesser did. Even if you initiated it and your parents condoned it, the crime was committed by Travesser.
He is a mature man of long experience. His past sexual behviour shows him to be a man with a strong sexual appetite and a desire for sexual variety. His behaviour with you leads me to believe that he is devious and that other children may be at risk from him.
Dear Heavenly Father
You have been with us all along, witnessing this controversy. It is for the lifting up of Your name and because of Your instructions that it began in the first place. We, of Your people, have been pleased to receive the calumny and accusation for Your name’s sake. You have Your purposes, which You sometimes hide from men, and we are grateful just to serve You in whatever way You choose.
Now the time has come for You to work, to do what only You can do. We have testified to the excellence of Your great and marvelous ways. Although sometimes shrouded in mystery, You always eventually make things plain. You have taught us to trust You in every instance and this is no exception. Our “reputation” is of no consequence to us but it is our focus that Yours remain not only untarnished but lifted up above all things.
For this reason, for Your name’s sake, come down now with power and great glory in the eyes of all men. Bring to pass the Vindication that will stop the tongue of every mocker and reviler. Do that which You have promised and that to which You have riveted our eyes and hearts. In the sight of the entire universe, and I ask in Your name for the Vindication now, believing we have received. I thank You for bringing to pass the end of the kingdoms of men….every one of them.
Now is the time, Father, and we are in agreement with You. Your Bride, born of Your own unfathomable suffering, is with You in Your work. We watch for Your imminent Vindication, the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.
Your Love has made us whole and free. Freely we have received and freely we return that Love to You. Into Your hands we commit our entirety.
Hananiah - You have a nice Chistmas now - I’m going to be offline until after the big day so I won’t be able to chat. Remember if you want to be healed by the hand of god then fine but even if Michael is divine, he would not cause one of his followers to transgress against one of the commandments.
Leaving Statutory Rape laws aside for a moment (Age of conscent New Mexico: 16-17 min), Adultery is going against the Father. If Michael says he is repealing the Commandment then perhaps he’s not who he says he is because they are the basis of ALL Christian Belief especially the 7th Day Adventist traditions (fundamental belief 19).
Hope everyone at SignalMesa has a long and boring existance until their natual and uneventful deaths. Because short of GOD having the most seriously warped mind imaginable - you guys are WRONG and DELUDED. How can I be sure? because everyone is against you, not just Ahtheists, but Christians and other religions. Basically you would all be stoned.
Tell michael I love the names you all use - People should google them for the real fun and background…
I see from my googling that the main focus of Michael (and interestingly Wayne on occaison) is often the decadence and oppression of the western world. Gabriel dables in interesting topics (although you’ll only find cached and copied versions on the web now) - You’d be amazed how many people don’t bother protecting access logs and let them be crawled. I found other stuff but feel that posting it would be wrong. I encourage people reading to search for themselves.
It’s funny how religion or a cult require the submission of it’s members so fully, when submission to the state is the thing that drives you to live in the wilderness.
MW writes. “….How can I be sure? because everyone is against you,…”
“And ye shall be hated of ALL MEN for My name’s sake.”
Luke 21:17
“Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad:…”
Matthew 5:11&12
“…..thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars [where they 'worship'], and break down their images [imaginations], and cut down their groves [where they play], and burn their graven images [their carved-in-stone beliefs] with fire.
For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God:…
The Lord did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
Deuteronomy 7:5-7
Malpoet ~
Very well said!
Wayne is breaking the law in the name of Christianity. And claiming to be Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ will come as himself. He won’t need the poor feeble body and mind of Wayne Bent. Wayne, are you making up the rules as you go along?
Having sexual contact with a minor is a serious crime. Whether or not that is what you call it. That is what it is.
Each of you in Wayne’s World listen…..this Forum of people is not an angry mob. But rather people concerned for your safety. Safety from Wayne.
Malpoet: I already stated to you my testimony about my experience with Michael, but you simply refuse to believe me. You cannot just accept my testimony how it is, and you continually put your own warped twisted picture on it all. You are only spreading libelous information about me, and by this, it shows that you have a wicked heart. You hate the Messiah whom God has sent to you, and so you have been left desolate.
I will not be telling you anymore about my testimony, since you cannot hear me or believe me. I will leave you to your own twisted warped beliefs, and let you have the life you love.
Strong City has their own websight
http://strongcity.info/
It’s where Wayne/MT feels safe.
I have a desire for truth. I have found none from Wayne. He lies through his teeth with claims of being the Second Coming of Christ. A very righteous claim from a very unrighteous man.
Ben Anthony puts it best ~ Wayne a self-proclaimed Messiah.
Key words ~ Self Proclaimed
Matthew 24:36 (NIV) “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
MT how is it you can pull the wool over your poor unsuspecting followers eyes?
How can you claim to be the second coming of Christ the Son of God.
The quote above from the Bible, states no one will know the day or hour…….not even God’s son. You can’t believe you are Christ really. He has not returned yet for in a twinkling of an eye, we shall all see him. I have never seen you.
Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (KJV)
Healed has refused to say what Travesser actually did when he
“placed my hand on her heart”.
The only way his statement could make sense is that he put his hand on her left breast. Without any further elaboration from Traveser or Healed, it is established that Michael is an active paedophile. That is, he not only has sexual fantasies about children, but that he also enhances those sexual desires by engaging in direct physical, sexual, contact with children.
Having established that, it is useful to examine why he should be interested in virginity and what may have been in his mind. According to Travesser, seven virgins came to him in his bed. Seven is significant only because it has been seen as being a propitious number. This is ancient numerological magic that was absorbed by some Christians. Numbers like 1, 3 and 7 being good, 6 bad and so on. Meaningless nonsense, but just one of the pieces of superstition that Travesser taps into.
.
What is a virgin and what is the significance of virginity? In a clinical sense, a female is a virgin if her hymen is intact. More generally, and from many religious viewpoints, it would mean a person lacking in sexual experience. In this sense, of course, Healed was not a virgin because of her having been sexually molested before Michael. This is an appalling situation and I do not suggest that Healed is diminished in any way by what has been done to her by men. Many girls cease to be technical virgins although they have never had sexual contact with another person. We do not know what Travesser meant by virgins in the case of his seven ranging in age from 14 to 28.
For many people in the modern age, virginity, by any interpretation, is no longer a matter of great interest. It was absolutely vital in paternalistic societies where female children were chattels that had a value as marriageable commodities. In such societies, and sadly some still exist today, the value of the girl child would fall dramatically or be completely lost if she was not completely ‘new and unused’ for the prospective husband, chosen by her father, to buy her. Fortunately, developed societies have got to a position where women are no longer possessions that can be tarnished and they can make their own decisions about their lives. Things are a long way from being perfect, but outside of Strong City there has been a lot of progress.
In primitive society, virginity in girls was crucial to male power. It was not only the financial transaction with the propsective husband for their daughters, but also maintaining control over every aspect of the behaviour of female family members.
Wayne Bent was a person of limited achievement, power and influence. As Travesser, he has now appointed himself to a person of enormous power over his followers. He dissolves their marriages and takes his pick of which women he will have sex with (irrespective of conventions which would normally exclude this behaviour such as being his daughter -in-law).
With the seven virgins Travesser moved on to another level of power and sexual gratification. He elevated virginity to something of value to him, the supposed Messiah, and created a ritual in which they had this naked encounter with him. I would be fairly confident that he was excited by the idea that the virgins were untouched by another man and that they were his to either take sexually, or to decide who could have them in that way. This fed Travesser’s power complex as well as the sexual content of wanting the ‘first go’ which is closely related to a sexual attraction to children.
In short, Travesser is a sexual predator who has moved on from getting sexual gratification by having sex with a variety of women, taking them from other men and breaking societal taboos, to wanting to be the first and only man to have them. Power and sex are joined in this mindset. He has already broken the law and unless he is stopped I would fear that his desires will drive him on to further abuses. He shows the signs of a serial offender who may be unable to control the progression of his needs.
If you were any kind of a real man and would show yourself openly and publicly, as Michael has done, there might possibly be a reason to listen to you.
But instead, you are as barking dog, slinking around the base of the walls of the city, hiding behind a monitor screen and remaining in anonymity so that you can vomit nonsense, innuendo, outright lies and your own perverted thinking. By this, you are exposed for who you are. Your mind is defiled with the perversions you yourself indulge in, for you see in others the mirror of your own heart.
You said, “Healed has refused to say what Travesser actually did when he
“placed my hand on her heart”. Your false accusation of Healed is only one example of the willing ignorance and devious imagination you exhibit. Only an idiot or a truly evil heart would make that claim after reading what Healed has posted.
In post #299, Healed spoke very clearly about details.
“Michael DID NOT molest me, and it was not sexual in any way either. He did not touch my breasts or my private parts AT ALL.”
The fact that you refuse to believe her true words over your own perverted thinking only demonstrates how far from reality you choose to live.
You stated, “Without any further elaboration from Traveser or Healed, it is established that Michael is an active paedophile”. Such a specific unsubstantiated statement, in your world, would be grounds for legal action. But since you hide, you feel safe in accusing without fear of reprisal. I tell you truly there is One Judge who is hearing all of your accusations. He will deal with you.
If you truly believed your false accusations, instead of just barking about them, why are you not in active pursuit of Michael and trying to save Healed and others from him? It is because you know that there is no substance to your accusations that you remain a shadow in the dark, spouting nonsense.
Your pedantic pontifications concerning virgins and power convince no one, except those of your same evil spirit, of any charge against Michael. You have not accepted the testimony of those who know firsthand about him. Because of this, there will be no one in the courts of heaven to accept your testimony when you present it.
You have never met the man, and you will NEVER meet His Spirit, except to fall at His feet in your personal hour of Judgment.
This is the question I put to Healed:
You say:
“Michael DID NOT molest me, and it was not sexual in any way either. He did not touch my breasts”
He said:
“she took off her clothing and I held her, and placed my hand on her heart,”
Where did he place his hand?
She has refused to answer it.
A naked man in his sixties taking a naked child of fourteen into his bed and touching her is the criminal act of a paedophile. The law enforcement authorities in New Mexico should act on that.
Travesser’s whole behaviour is indicative of his sexual and psychological inadequacies. His own ramblings and those of his supporters are a mixture of protestations that nobody has knowledge other than them, meaningless nonsense, and unpleasant, but empty, threats of retribution in another world to all who oppose him. The sort of behaviour one might expect from a silly little group with a ridiculous leader.
See who the perverts really are:
http://strongcity.info/LOR/sc/post/who_are_the_perverts/
That is a revelation, Hanifa, that they have very strenuously avoided. It is clearly evident that self-knowledge is not something for which they have any great affection.
Like Clinton who ‘did NOT have sexual relations with that woman’, Travesser has difficulty understanding what sexual relations are. He also tries to deny that children of fourteen are really children.
Hanifa and Healed do not understand what libel is. It is printing untrue things about a person. I have relied entirely on the statements of Travesser and Healed. If these things are untrue, it is they who are lying.
The current decision by Travesser and his followers to refer to people as dogs is another example of their unpleasant derangement.
The prophet Isaiah referred to people as dogs also, as did Jesus, and Paul, and Michael has used this sybolism also for years in describing the natural man. It is not a current decision. Those who know their own uncoverted human nature would agree that it is a accurate allusion, but the god-dogs of the world don’t like to have their spots revealed, so they see it as an “unpleasant derangement.”
Hanifa ,
You are long overdue to take your daughters on a picnic.
You have chosen the broad way of self knowledge
You have a part in the apostate church
You let a man steal your crown
You have given your children to an idol
Your world is just that …YOUR world
Your great swelling words of emptyness are from a wounded heart
Hello Justin
By what you have written, it appears you have some knowledge of who I am. Please tell me who you are.
This forum has had 328 posts….now 329.
It’s useless to have conversations that where each have their own thoughts and no ones going to change.
MT has so brilliantly brainwashed his followers. They even ask what is brainwashing? Many thoughts have been placed in your heads over and over. If you don’t live a certain way, MT’s way there will be great punishments. This is brainwashing. You have all been brainwashed and are under MT’s control.
I did see part of the documentary and I was disturbed by all of it. Not that you live differently, so to say but how you live. Under the sole influence of MT and the voices in his head, he puts the thoughts in your minds. How you live is a classic case of mind control.
I know that many have left your cult and MT you lay heavy trips on their minds that once they leave, there is no coming back. Now I know that God is a forgiving God. ANd MT/Wayne have you always been what you think is perfect, self righteous?
You are a dangerous man, living out a dangerous fantasy. And taking so many unsuspecting people with you and it won’t be Heaven the way you’re going.
Malpoet, you may want to give a bit more thought as to the subjects you address. Your apparent fixation with how you picture Michael touching Healed reveals a great deal more about your fantasy life than you would probably wish others to know.
Your overactive imagination and tendency toward self-justification also appears quite pathological. You like to make comments about Michael and his followers being somewhat deranged, but have you ever considered obtaining professional help yourself? It might be to your benefit.
JC: You spoke of the movie and it’s impact on you. It’s quite clear that you see Michael through your own glasses. You take such liberty and make such grandiose statements about what you know about us. Have you met us personally? You know that many have left our cult and you say that “MT lays heavy trips on their minds once they leave.” Once they leave how would he lay a heavy trip on them if they aren’t here or does not contact them? You see through the eyes of your flesh and not the eyes of God. I have never, ever heard anything of the sort out of Michael’s mouth. He has never condemned or ridiculed anyone who has left. He respects every man and treats them that way. All I have heard and seen from him when someone has left has been his hurting heart for the soul that will not believe God.
You also say that there is no coming back. How would you know that? You would have to be here to know that, and you are not.
As far as brainwashing … We are not automatons. God respects us. God respects you. He takes you seriously. He takes me seriously. We are able to make up our own mind, make our own choices. And, there is One Mind — God’s. There is such a thing you know. Michael has said to me, “There is a God in heaven.” “Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus.” “But we have the mind of Christ.” God’s mind says the same thing, thinks the same, believes the same. There is perfect unity while there is individuality. This is something you know nothing about.
And this dangerous man, Michael, who entreats the soul to leave his dysfunctional world of insanity and be whole and healed of its sin, hurts, failings and troubles; Who loves the soul with self sacrificing love; Michael, who is faithful, honest, and sacrifices everything he has and is for the good of those he came to save from death. Sounds pretty dangerous doesn’t he? You’d better keep your fear of him and be safe.
And you are right. Can two walk together except they agree? You are too afraid to live in our world and we don’t want to live in your dysfunctional world. And the two will never come together and be unified for they are as far apart as the east is from the west.
I AM the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the first and the last. I create and I destroy, I build and I tear down. I AM the One Who was to come and the One Who is come.
Yawn Yawn…….I’m getting tired of the banter here.
You Travessers always turn things around. I know some of the ex’s and they were warned if they left they would be condemmed. H do you hear everything that MT says? Obviously you hear enough to be controlled by his teachings and mind control.
This is going no where and neither are all of the Travessers that follow your self appointed Savior.
So sorry and So long……………………
And Happy Birthday!
….And, Michael, you are my Saviour.
I care not what other’s say. They are all blind men who have never seen your face, yet they try to tell me that they know just what you look like. How can they know Who I know. I have seen you, they have not. You ARE the Son of God…and I love you.
I AM He Who was promised, that would come into the world once again. I AM “the sign of the Son of Man.” I AM the Gift of My Father unto men. The day breaks and I must go. The Day Star is dawning upon the heart of some, and to these the promise will be kept. The deliverance and the Jubilee will be fulfilled. The “last trump” is sounding as the end of the age nears. This time is opening now and the trump is even now being heard in the heavens.
The time has come all right. For Travesser to be arrested and for his followers to try to build some lives for themselves.
The mad garbage poured out by this group is too tiresome to wade through.
If you have read this far, you will be aware that the various cult members have just been flooding this blog with their own perception of reality. I feel I have given them enough space but have now suspended their posts to prevent future flooding. However, if you have read the above, you will get a taste of what they are saying in very religious sounding language:
1) You are wrong and we are right.
2) We seem to be above the law and normality and you are all very wicked and corrupt.
Any comments by non-cult members addressing issues relating to the subject of this blog, and any attempts to reply by cult members will be welcomed (at my discretion). However, abuse of this blog by cult members attempting to swamp it will be denied. Because of comments being moderated, some of you may experience delays or denials in your postings from this point on
I’d like to thank athinkingman for allowing it to run for so long - it’s been an interesting insight into the way that people think and behave. Cheers.
Your sentiments concerning the “cult” use of this blog had occurred to me this very morning, athinkingman. For myself, I felt as if I would not post again and just let the volume of previous posts speak for themselves. There has been no intentional misuse of your blog but I, too, feel that the time has come to leave the testimony, of both sides, as they stand.
I will leave you to your judgment of our motives behind what we have posted, mainly because there is nothing that can be said that will convince you otherwise. The “wicked and corrupt” is that natural man of which we have all been a partaker at one time or another. IT is wrong and God is right.
My point in this post is to thank you for allowing this fiery controversy to burn up your page. Truly it is going out into all the earth and the end of it will be the end of all the kingdoms of men.
In the end, it is each person’s testimony that will be their justification or their condemnation. God is perfectly fair.
Hanifa,
You know God is not perfectly fair , that would violate all the selfless acts ever done.
“It’s not good and bad , it’s grace and mercy”
In the end ( I think) the Love of God will settle the disputes that are human in origin. Love will make a way where there was no other way.
[...] 20 minutes or so of the documentary. This, together with comments from the cult members on the original posting should give you a flavour of what the controversy was about and of their world view (though the [...]
I think that this whole rigmarole only goes to show that we’re all influenced far too strongly by what we observe through our biased media. We, as outsiders, cannot possibly claim to know enough about Michael and his followers to judge them, and equally they are forming many opinions of the outside world (Iraq, British Citizens, etc) that could only be based on their observations through the media.
We all hold differing opinions on morality, whether they be based on religion, culture, personal concience or governmental laws. Its very difficult to point your finger at someone for lying in a bed with their “family” without clothes on, when some families practice secular naturism which by no means constitutes child abuse. Is their an age of a child whereby it is no longer acceptable to be naked around them? And who are we to define that age?
Also, every child on this planet is exposed to beliefs and ideas that will influence their adult life, who are we to say that Michael’s influences are so terrible? At least his followers do seem happy in their lives. There are plenty of children growing up in far worse situations (i.e. growing up in a family of rascism, and subsequently finding it very difficult to relate to different races on an equal level), with far worse influences.
I am not “Pro-Michael”, I was shocked at the documentary, but have since re-evaluated my feelings based on all the arguments here and think that it’s pretty much a waste of time as it’s a fight that no-one can win. I am also not Christian, but I realise that Michael has as much argument to being the Messiah as Jesus once had, although I doubt he’ll go down in history in quite the same way.
Thanks to all for the fantastic entertainment, and thought-provoking arguments!
BM
McLaren: The problem is that there are laws (for good reason) to protect children from sexual exploitation. Your reasoning: We all hold differing opinions on morality, whether they be based on religion, culture, personal concience or governmental laws. Its very difficult to point your finger at someone for lying in a bed with their “family” without clothes on, when some families practice secular naturism which by no means constitutes child abuse. Is their an age of a child whereby it is no longer acceptable to be naked around them? And who are we to define that age? is just the kind of reasoning that a paedophile would use to circumvent the laws.
athinkingman: Of course you’re right, the laws in place are there for very good reasons, and when it comes to child abuse it’s obviously better to be safe than sorry…
My point was just that the law must be left to judge Michael (as it is the modern, appointed “judgemental God” of the people) and not us based on our “moral” beliefs, as these differ so wildly from person to person. Also that we can’t trust the information we’ve been fed, so how can we possibly judge??
I hope the law is aware of this man and keeping an eye on his mischief.
I have a problem with the strongcity.info website.
On one thread, there is Michael arguing with a Brit about which country is bad, and what they have done to Iraq.
My question: Why are you arguing this? Is it not true that God is in control? And that therefore Iraq is receiving exactly what it deserves? As is the USA, and everything and everyone?
If a million Iraqis died, was that unjust? Is God unjust?
No. And if the USA is nuked because of her actions it will be just also. It goes around and around and on and on, the trail of cause and effect, until you just step right out of the loop.
Pretty funny, well written.
I find that if I take the words of Jesus, and ignore the rest more or less, it pretty much makes perfect sense. As someone who has open-mindedly considered a lot, I bet you would agree.
As for the part about the holy spirit, the spirit of truth, coming….well, that part is true also. I wouldn’t say it if I didn’t know for sure.
And what that spirit says is to do what charity tells you to do. Who knows, maybe give the bum a bar of lava rather that ten bucks. Who knows. Whatever the spirit tells you.
You who are blind to things of the spirit are just like the people of the world in Noah’s day. God’s people have entered into the end time ark (Christ’s Life) Michael. The consummation represents the flood and every bit of the speck of light you ever had is being washed away. I too believed as you did, but The Heavenly Father has taught me to recognize His voice. I was in the church of The Lord Our Righteousness and heard and believed many wonderful truths taught there. The moment I doubted His voice I entered a Literal seven year Nebuchadnezzar experience. During this time I slandered Michael as does Ben’s documentary. Dec. 3,1999 I fell to my spiritual death, and two days later I fell 50 ft to my physical death. after 4.5 days I awoke thinking as does an animal. I literally ate grass as an animal. My physical hygiene was such that my hair indeed grew to resemble eagles wings, and my finger and toenails grew to resemble their claws. As an animal is, I was slave to my lust, as also is everyone who sees with the eyes of their flesh and not God’s spirit. Seven years later to the day I felt Father’s spirit reenter me and almost immediately He told me to go find two strange women and just have SEX with them. I saw this as something I would Rather die than do, so I fell to my knees and plead for a way out. Father then told me to stop trying to hurt His Son Michael and those that followed Him, and that I should live as a messenger to point people to His true Son Michael. Father also told me I had already fulfilled this command of His when I was in my animal state of lust.
You who are decieved and profess Christianity have put God in your little box. We who believe as well as all the profits who came before Us have not. You who are decieved might want to read your Bible and see all the weird things God told the profits to do. Jugement is come to all and you all will either be consumed by the lust of the flesh or the spirit of the Heavenly Father.
[...] they are so divorced from reality where even the religious fraternity think they are a bit bizarre. The End of the World Cult would fall into this category for me. Michael Travesser (Wayne Bent) is convinced that god has told [...]
A Thinking Man: Sounds about like what was said about Jesus Christ and His deciples over 2000 years ago.
I believe that an offshoot sect becomes a cult when the leader of that cult decides that they are the messiah. Then when that cult chooses a date for the end of the world and it doesn’t happen, That should tell them. In the Bible it says that if a prophet makes one wrong prediction, he is to be put to death because that shows he is not a prophet. This Michael has made 2 wrong prophesies. I hope he does not talk these people into doing a Jim Jones.