Since my friends have got to know of my present health problems a number of them from throughout the UK have contacted me to assure me that they are praying for me, and I know that at least two churches are interceding for me. I am genuinely touched by the kindness of the sentiment behind their actions and grateful for their concern. Several years ago I would have been doing the same for them. However, as an individual, I now have several problems with the notion of praying for the sick.
I understand that people who pray for others to get well usually do so from the best of motives. They see someone in need, have compassion for them, and want that person’s needs to be met. I also understand that in the face of suffering, there is a natural tendency to want to relieve it and to feel that you can do something. You may be prevented from actually doing something concrete for a variety of reasons, but at least some people feel they can pray. Prayer also meets the needs of those who pray by enabling people to act.
Despite the kind intentions, prayer for the sick presents me with at least four problems.
First, despite praying almost daily for over 35 years, I cannot recall a single prayer that was unequivocally answered - answered in a way that was beyond a shadow of doubt due to divine intervention and not mere natural process (that would have happened anyway) or circumstance. As I went up to University I recall prayers that I would find a suitable wife during my degree course - and I did, but then I probably would have done anyway without the prayers. I recall prayers before various job interviews asking that I would get the job if it was god’s will - and I did or didn’t, but probably would have or not anyway. I recall endless prayers for people to become Christians, and they remained obstinate in their unbelief. I recall endless prayers for the sick, and they either got better, remained the same, or died. If they got better, I knew god had been working positively for their good, if they stayed the same, I knew god was holding back for some mysterious reason known only to her/him, and if they died, I knew that god had made the decision to end their life.
Looking back, I still maintain that there was nothing unequivocal. Niente. Zilch. Of course, I want to remain open. If someone can show me something unequivocal I would be willing to consider it. I have challenged some of my friends to pray that my needle phobia will disappear before my next visit to hospital where they will inject my groin. Now that really would be unequivocal and make me think. Come on guys. Set to it!
The second problem that I have in praying for the sick has been hinted at above. It is the sheer difficulty of having a rational conversation about the subject with people who have a template that prevents them from engaging in normal discourse. If a person gets better, most people would attribute that to biology and medicine, but to the praying person it is divine intervention. If a person remains the same or deteriorates and dies, most people would attribute that biology and a failure of medicine (and a failure of divine intervention), but to the praying person it is evidence of divine intervention. Whatever the outcome, it is always divine. It is difficult to engage in serious discourse with such reasoning.
The third problem I have in praying for the sick relates to the fact that the bible clearly teaches, despite my second point above, that some prayers actually fail and go unanswered. Despite the common Christian mind-set which teaches that both healing and death are a divine answer to prayer, the bible teaches that some people die because the prayers were defective in some way and didn’t get answered. Things, which, according to the bible, typically prevent divine aid flowing are unbelief on the part of the person praying, lack of persistence, lack of fasting, lack of holiness.
So, let’s get this straight - the psychological trauma I am facing and which will increase on my next visit to hospital will happen either because god thought it would be good for me (problem two), or because the people praying for me messed up in some way (problem three). Perhaps it was the large portion of chips that tipped them from sensible eating into gluttony, perhaps it was the late night TV and inevitably resulted in a bit of lust, perhaps it was just that they were having a bad day and began to doubt the whole thing anyway - whatever it was, something they did (or didn’t do) resulted in me getting it (or not having it removed)! I’m afraid that that theology seems too bizarre to stomach.
The fourth problem grows out of problem number three and is to do with the whole absurdity of the concept. I remember as a teenager crying with laughter at Bob Newhart’s smoking sketch where he describes Sir Walter Raleigh trying to persuade others about this new thing called smoking. At the time smoking to me seemed quite normal and very attractive. But in Newhart’s words, the absurdity became all too clear. “You mean you buy this stuff …. then you roll it up in paper … then you set fire to it …. AND THEN YOU STICK IT IN YOUR MOUTH AND SUCK IT?” Just stand back from prayer for a second and think about what it going on.
You are asking a god who has had to be appeased by the torturous death of her/his son to do something that (s)he has already decided to do anyway. The result may not be the relief of the sick person either because the god has decided to withhold his blessing because (s)he wanted to, or because (s)he decided that the person praying wasn’t good enough anyway. Quite honestly, I can’t see the point of asking.
In the past there were people who slaughtered animals and examined the state of entrails in order to decide what to do. Today there are still people who talk to an imaginary friend and interpret events in a way which to them means that their friend in speaking and telling them what to do. When I next receive medical treatment I want educated, rational people to make decisions based on the best empirical science and logic. My health is too important to rely on mumbo-jumbo.
Well, I love this post. Praying was the last thing to go for me as I deconverted. It was such a habit. JW’s coming down the road? Pray. Throwing clothes in the dryer, pray. Getting a bath, my favourite time to pray.
Not to add to any future angst, but, have you considered those educated and rational med professionals who make decisions based on empirical science and logic, could very likely be people who believe in an invisible diety and pray themselves for guidance and direction in managing your care?
Zoe is now crossing her fingers that, that last comment didn’t worsen your condition.
We run into the usual problem here: your arguments make rational sense but religious belief is not rational and is therefore not perturbed by such reasoning.
The more interesting question I would ask is: Why do believers pray for the sick? If you think it’s obvious, think again. If God is good, then surely God wants what is best for the patient and will ensure this happens, in spite of any possibly misguided prayers. Praying for the sick thus implies that God does not do what is best for the patient unless cajoled to do so. I am sure most believers never think of that.
Most believers probably never reflect, either, that their main reason for praying for the sick is pride. They believe they can actually influence what God does! Wow, that’s one hell of a trick. They believe they have a personal telephone line to God (”Just see to this for me, God, please”) and will be listened to. If that isn’t pride, I don’t know what is.
Another reason for praying for the sick is the “well-I-have-to-do-something” syndrome. If you are worried about someone but can’t help, what do you do? If you are a believer, you pray. It’s all that’s left, and it’s a little bit comforting into the bargain. Putting that another way, it’s an indication of despair, not of confidence in God to do the right thing.
There was a survey (sorry, I don’t have the details to hand, so just ignore this if you don’t trust me) that showed that seriously ill patients who knew they had been prayed for did worse, on average, than those who were not prayed for. The reasons are not clear but it is suspected that if people think they need praying for, they lose confidence in their ability to recover.
I have talked to believers about praying for the sick and the bereaved, etc. They have never been able to give me a good, non-paradoxical reason for doing it. The discussion usually ends with some remark such as “Well, that’s what we do, so there!”
People sometimes ask me if they may pray for me. I always say no. I love to see the conceited look on their faces turn to one of bewilderment and concern. The poor fools think they are doing me a favour and cannot understand how I can possibly refuse. The fact that they cannot explain exactly what this favour consists of doesn’t appear to bother them.
So much to answer here and where does one start.
I would like you to read, after, I have finished it or perhaps before if I am too slow; Lee Strobel’s The Case for Faith. A Jornalist Investigates thr Toughest Objections to Christianity.
Lee, an atheist turned christian started his work after his wife converted to christianity. Wanting to prove, in his logical, journalistic mind, that his wife’s new belief was a load of mumbo-jumbo. Like so many before him, he looked at the evidence and his first book was the Case for Christ, which I have not read yet. His conversion was set.
I think it is time we had that chat about my own experience, which I know you will dismiss as nonsence, yet no-one would be able to prove or disprove.
I like Zoe’s last comments about the people looking after you.
I will leave you for the moment with two questions to think about.
Why should God answer your prayer by Sunday?
What have you done for him lately to deserve it?
Zoe
Thanks for your comments. I think I’ll survive people praying provided they are good doctors too
SilverTiger
As usual, interesting and provocative points. I thought the pride angle was witty. I agree that the notion of prayer can be disabling for some, especially if it stops them doing sensible things.
onethoughtfulwoman
I am sort of determined not to even begin to go there, but I can’t resist leaving short answers to your two questions.
Answer to question one: Because other people are asking him/her to and (s)he promised them they would receive if they asked. (Unless, of course, the bible isn’t true!)
Answer to question two: Wow, that’s a new one. I don’t ever recall anywhere in the bible the recipient of the prayer needing to be worthy. If that were the case it would undermine the whole NT concept of grace. You’re letting the Roman Catholic influence get to you!
I am happy to read whatever you give me. I take it you have read Dawkins?
During my own hospitalization, critical in nature, my then pastor came to visit me. He was a very tall man. I was laying completely flat on my bed. Still very much out of it and seeing double when both eyes were open, he arrived at the side of my bed, towering over me. I listened to him, sometimes with my eyes open, other times with them shut. I was so weak and semi-conscious on and off at the time. I’m not sure what he said. But, suddenly, as I opened my eyes I saw him falling to the floor. Scared the living daylights out of me.
I managed to get up onto my side and elbows as I figured I’d have to help him up or call for a nurse. The siderail of the bed was up, so it helped me pull myself up, and as I opened my eyes again, I saw that the man was right in my face and all he had done was get down on his knees to pray for me!
What happened next was kind of funny. I gave him heck for scaring me to death, told him I thought he was falling and couldn’t he pray standing up? He looked at me rather sheepishly and said, well I’m here now. So, he prayed, briefly and off he went.
Thought I’d also mention that Stroble’s books The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith, read while still a conservative evangelical Christian, were some of the books I was reading that opened the door for my departure from Christianity.
Hugs to you athinkingman.
Zoe
What a wonderful story! Thanks. I had a real, good chuckle over that. Of course, by kneeling he was actually doing you a favour as it is well known that kneeling in a public place makes the prayers much more effective. And you are out of hospital! See! They worked!!!
I haven’t read them yet, but I doubt that the Stroble books will tackle the serious issue about the unreliability of the bible (an issue that most evangelical Christians run a mile from even thinking about), so any case for Christ is a pack of cards based on an unreliable foundation.
I simply cannot understand how anyone can believe in God. I just cannot. Maybe it is because I am a Mathematician and hopelessly logical but it is just outside my understanding. Obviously I am tolerant of those that do and have no problem with that as long as they do not try to foist their beliefs on me. If it makes them happy, is part of their life, then that is fine.
But surely people pray for their own benefit - never truly for the benefit of others? Is it not just about gaining brownie points, demonstrating your faith? Surely if they were only doing it for “you” or whoever, and truly believed that God would, in his wisdom, listen to their prayers and do what He thought was best, they wouldn’t have the need to broadcast to all and sundry that they had been praying for you at all.
I shan’t be praying for you (if there is a God I very much doubt He would listen to anything I have to say - in fact I’m sure He’d do the opposite of anything I asked!)but I do very much hope that you do get better soon and that you find some way to handle your needle phobia.
Great post and good discussion. Prayer was one of those issues that I couldn’t make sense of as a Christian. I knew what I’d been taught, and I knew what I tried to teach, but those teachings never quite squared up with what I observed. How does one know whether God had answered “no” to a prayer, or whether one had prayed inappropriately, or whether one was wrong with God oneself? If one can’t answer those questions, how does one go about establishing a more efficacious prayer life? When it appeared that God had answered “yes,” how did one know whether God had intervened or natural forces had just taken a particular course unimpeded? Finally, how does one know that God is saying, “maybe, you need to wait awhile longer?” How long does one wait?
Athoughtfulwoman’s question re: what AThinkingMan has done recently to merit God’s attention or favor is intriguing. As AThinkingMan noted, the idea that one has to “earn” brownie points with God in order to receive a positive response is not supposed to be part of the gospel message. God is alleged to behave out of grace and unconditional love. Frankly, I think the “what have you done…you’re not right with God…” answer is the Christian’s lame attempt to explain why God doesn’t answer our prayers. There’s a far simpler explanation for that: he/she/it doesn’t answer prayers because he/she/it doesn’t exist.
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